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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:28 am 
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Location: Saint Joseph, Michigan
H1Pete wrote:
So how can MI refuse to transfer an out of state registration that's already in your name into a MI title? Sounds illegal to me. Remember, if you go the VT route the registration is already IN YOUR NAME i.e. you already own the vehicle. MD initially pushed back when I went the VT route. I made them crack open their books and since it was in my name already they didn't have a choice.


Pete,

We're talking about bikes without titles.

Terry


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:30 am 
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Location: Saint Joseph, Michigan
cyclebuster wrote:
tell me how you do. Surety Bonds is the cheapest i found. And the value estimate is a real issue. If the issuing agent thinks your estimate of 2000 is wrong and its worth 2001, you lose and start all over forfeiting the bond. there is a dozen ways to fail from what i see. I am hoping i can get this situatioin fixed, and now this is a major issue here.


Can you explain what a sureity bond is exactly? Anybody?

I've heard of them, but have no idea what they are.

Terry


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:52 am 
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Leemata wrote:
H1Pete wrote:
So how can MI refuse to transfer an out of state registration that's already in your name into a MI title? Sounds illegal to me. Remember, if you go the VT route the registration is already IN YOUR NAME i.e. you already own the vehicle. MD initially pushed back when I went the VT route. I made them crack open their books and since it was in my name already they didn't have a choice.


Pete,

We're talking about bikes without titles.

Terry


Right. You can register a bike in VT without a title, bill of sale only. You get back a VT registration in your name. Then take that to MI and get a title issued in your name. Since you already own it and since VT doesn't issue titles on old vehicles (registration only) they shouldn't have a choice but to accept it. It's an extra step but it's pretty easy and should be less than $200 total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:28 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 6:43 pm
Posts: 316
Location: Tampa Bay, FL
H1Pete wrote:
Leemata wrote:
H1Pete wrote:
So how can MI refuse to transfer an out of state registration that's already in your name into a MI title? Sounds illegal to me. Remember, if you go the VT route the registration is already IN YOUR NAME i.e. you already own the vehicle. MD initially pushed back when I went the VT route. I made them crack open their books and since it was in my name already they didn't have a choice.

Pete,
We're talking about bikes without titles.
Terry

Right. You can register a bike in VT without a title, bill of sale only. You get back a VT registration in your name. Then take that to MI and get a title issued in your name. Since you already own it and since VT doesn't issue titles on old vehicles (registration only) they shouldn't have a choice but to accept it. It's an extra step but it's pretty easy and should be less than $200 total.

I recently titled a Jap import TZR this way...with a VT tag & reg. It didn't even have a 17 digit VIN! Worked a charm in FL!

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:31 pm 

Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 1:58 pm
Posts: 24
Location: Noblesville, indiana
it is basically a process called title washing. a process where a salvage title, or a lack of title can get a new title. The outline of the process has been discussed in this thread. what you have to do is find someone in a 'bill of sale' only state ( I guess VT is one of them but there are others) where the state will accept a bill of sale and then create a title to your contact. your contact gets the title and then sign it over to you. Now you have an out of state title for the vehicle, signed over by the supposed previous owner that is acceptable in your problem state.
your state now will accept the title for trasnsfer to your name. this process also clears milage descrepencies, salvage titles, and all other branding that states do. This is how flooded, totaled cars from hurricane katrina showed up all around the country with clear titles.

this process will also force you folks that did not pay state sales tax for the transaction to now pay it. since you avoided it by never transferring the title.

look up title washing in google..

also ask your DMV how you can pay sales tax on the transaction as their refusing to title a bill of sale vehicle prevents them from collecting sales tax... I bet they will figure out a way to get your money...

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:08 am 
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Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:43 pm
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joewill wrote:
it is basically a process called title washing. a process where a salvage title, or a lack of title can get a new title. The outline of the process has been discussed in this thread. what you have to do is find someone in a 'bill of sale' only state ( I guess VT is one of them but there are others) where the state will accept a bill of sale and then create a title to your contact. your contact gets the title and then sign it over to you. Now you have an out of state title for the vehicle, signed over by the supposed previous owner that is acceptable in your problem state.
your state now will accept the title for trasnsfer to your name. this process also clears milage descrepencies, salvage titles, and all other branding that states do. This is how flooded, totaled cars from hurricane katrina showed up all around the country with clear titles.

this process will also force you folks that did not pay state sales tax for the transaction to now pay it. since you avoided it by never transferring the title.

look up title washing in google..

also ask your DMV how you can pay sales tax on the transaction as their refusing to title a bill of sale vehicle prevents them from collecting sales tax... I bet they will figure out a way to get your money...


One correction to what Joe says...with the VT process you get a registration in your name, not a title in someone else name. Having it in my name already seemed to make all the difference to MD.

And yes, this process can be abused and lead to all sorts of unsavory activities. Unfortunately as long as states play games like MI it seems to be the only practical way to recover titles for old bikes. VT also limits it to older vehicles which kinda minimizes the damage.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:17 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:42 am
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Location: Saint Joseph, Michigan
I could be wrong, but the way I read Michigan's rules, you have to present a title to get your bike licensed.

I'll continue to study this.

Terry


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:12 am 
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Leemata wrote:
I could be wrong, but the way I read Michigan's rules, you have to present a title to get your bike licensed.

I'll continue to study this.

Terry


Well...that's what MD tried to tell me. You have to explain to them, and make them look it up if need be, that VT (among other states) does NOT issue titles for older vehicles. They are registration only. So how can MI legally say "Well Sir, we don't care if you legally own that motorcycle/car/whatever with valid, and legal VT documents, we still won't let you register/title it in this state." Like I said, sounds illegal to me.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:20 am 
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Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:34 pm
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Location: North Central NC
Leemata wrote:
Can you explain what a sureity bond is exactly? Anybody?

I've heard of them, but have no idea what they are.

Terry

In NC, if I want to title a bike and have no previous title, I have to fill out some paperwork and pay some fees, get the bike inspected to show it's roadworthy, and post a bond valued at 1.5 time the value of the bike (minimum $100). Then they give me a bonded title. After three years, if no one shows up and claims the bike I get the bond back and have a clear title.

My plan, when this comes up for me, is to throw the bike together with no painting or restoration, and just get it running. Then I'll get it appraised at a local dealer. Hopefully it'll look bad enough that the value will be very low. Then I'll get the bonded title and start working on the bike.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:28 am 
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Jim wrote:
Leemata wrote:
Can you explain what a sureity bond is exactly? Anybody?

I've heard of them, but have no idea what they are.

Terry

In NC, if I want to title a bike and have no previous title, I have to fill out some paperwork and pay some fees, get the bike inspected to show it's roadworthy, and post a bond valued at 1.5 time the value of the bike (minimum $100). Then they give me a bonded title. After three years, if no one shows up and claims the bike I get the bond back and have a clear title.

My plan, when this comes up for me, is to throw the bike together with no painting or restoration, and just get it running. Then I'll get it appraised at a local dealer. Hopefully it'll look bad enough that the value will be very low. Then I'll get the bonded title and start working on the bike.


Jim - are you sure it's "no title" and not "no paperwork"? Big difference. With the VT route you have legal ownership papers. Surely you can't be suggesting that if JayDav moves from VT to NC he would have to pay all the fees and get the bike bonded...

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