Kawi2strokes.com Forum

Enthusiasts from around the world dedicated to the preservation and ritual flogging of the infamous Kawasaki 2-stroke Triples
It is currently Sun Jul 13, 2025 9:53 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 8:45 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:25 am
Posts: 3163
JohnnyO, on Brad's board, asked this question,

"NGK buhx semi surface discharge plugs.. How do these perform in triples?? I think they were originally made to perform better than standard plugs scratch Its my feeling they would foul easier, but put the spark where you need it.. Any thoughts"

Yes, I do.

Those surface gap spark plugs have a fairly cold heat range, as the UL17V and UL19V Champion plugs had, the 17 being a touch "hotter" than the 19. BUHX and UL19V have virtually the same heat range, colder than a conventional B9HS range NGK.

This design spark plug was initially used on outboard engines that used battery fed CDI systems, as did the original 3 year's H1's used. In the outboard engines, they had already proven to be the best choice for the ignition systems used, and engine tuning parameters.

They do not work well in magneto CDI systems, like the H2. They work excellent on the battery fed H1 motorcycles. I've even used them in the A series CDI engines, with NO adverse issues.

I have never seen one that was fouled, never seen one that was worn out, and have reused them after they got sprayed with aluminum after other mechanics had reduced the pistons down to slag metal (all I did to fix them was to use a motor driven wire brush to get the aluminum off them, and put them back into the now fixed engine, NO issues).

I've even used them in early H1 road race modified street bike engines that used the stock battery fed CDI's.

Kawasaki didn't install these spark plugs as anything other than a part that worked the best for the application. They weren't an advertizing ploy, nor a joke, nor the lowest price part they could find.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:55 pm 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:37 am
Posts: 10460
Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico
H2RTuner wrote:

Kawasaki didn't install these spark plugs as anything other than a part that worked the best for the application. They weren't an advertizing ploy, nor a joke, nor the lowest price part they could find.


Then we will just have to disagree. If they were that great, everyone would be using them, as they are still available. I tried them, and found no difference. Nev did find they made a bit more power on the dyno on a race motor. I still say it's a sales ploy, as they didn't stay with them.

_________________
Twist the throttle, tilt the horizon, and have a great time. What triples are all about...........


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:02 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:03 am
Posts: 4612
Location: Milang, South Australia
Weren't they (relatively) expensive, back in the day, like 4/5 times the cost of a normal plug? Kawasaki stopped using them and so did all of us!

_________________
"One day, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it's worth watching." : anon.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:45 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:34 pm
Posts: 10015
Location: North Central NC
Wouldn't 4/5 times the cost be less that the cost? Just kidding, Rod... let's see some photos of your H2. It must be nearly ready now.

_________________
If it surges, that's normal, upshift.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:54 am 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:03 am
Posts: 4612
Location: Milang, South Australia
^ :lol: Yeah, Jim, the bike is 1/2 way to being 3/4's built! Stay tuned , pictures will start happening soon.............!

_________________
"One day, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it's worth watching." : anon.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:02 am 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:37 am
Posts: 10460
Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico
RODH2 wrote:
Weren't they (relatively) expensive, back in the day, like 4/5 times the cost of a normal plug? Kawasaki stopped using them and so did all of us!


If they didn't foul or wear out, then there wouldn't be a need to change them out. That wasn't the case.

And I don't see how a plug would know the difference between a battery CDI and magneto CDI. Seems both have a ton of voltage. Why would it work in one, and not the other? (for Dave)

Has anyone actually found BUHX plugs in a bike they bought?

_________________
Twist the throttle, tilt the horizon, and have a great time. What triples are all about...........


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:12 am 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:03 am
Posts: 4612
Location: Milang, South Australia
I've got an old one here - might put it on E-bay! (Just have to find a grimy old glove to hold it for the picture!)

_________________
"One day, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it's worth watching." : anon.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:27 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:25 am
Posts: 3163
Battery CDI's are more consistent throughout the rev range than magneto CDI's. Magnetro CDI's such as the H2, and other dirt bikes, have two separate charging systems in them, this is why the H1D and H2 has an ignition rectifier. One charge system works for the low end revs, the other for high end, because no one coil can adequately charge the system throughout the rev range from idle to red line. This makes for variable output over the rev range, whereas the battery system is consistent all the way through it. this is why we also see magneto CDI sysems on two stroke race bikes have plug gaps between .018 and .025, where the better mag systems, such as H1D and H2, use .035, and the battery H1 CDI's, .040 for the B9HS plugs.

Take a real close look at the gap on the surface gap plugs, they are large. A MAGNETO CDI WILL NOT BRIDGE THAT GAP, without losing spark efficiency, and this IS the reason they should be run only on a battery powered CDI setup ONLY.

Only times I ever saw these, and the B9's ever NOT work well in an early H1 was when some self proclaimed know it all tuner NOT set the float levels at 26 mm's on those carbs, change jetting, set the oil pump too high, get the timing wrong. EVERY time I ever saw these and the B9's not work, simply setting the variables right, float level, jetting, oil pump setting, timing, clean baffles, the spark plugs came back to working as they should, no fouling, problems.

I remember the B9's cost .35 each back then, and the BUHX was a whopping .40 each, what a price difference, wallet flattening for sure. Why, the cost difference alone would stop a fellow from getting a lunch for a whole week, it was so much difference.

Before I went to work at Team Kawasaki Road Race, I worked as a line mechanic at Steve Hurd's shop in Montebello, Ca. We got bikes in from all over, because Stan Udell and I would take the time to set the variables correctly, making the bikes run the right way, and NOT foul plugs, do stupid things. In the long run, we doing all the stuff nobody else did, helped us when the bike came in for service later in its lifetime, because it was right before, and didn't degrade, have problems. SAME applies for S and H2 bikes, don't set the variables, or set them wrong, EXPECT problems with their parts.

We see the effects of those know it all's every day here, someone buys a used bike that had this or that issue, fouling plugs, not running right, and some of it is because NOBODY, including the dealer "tuning expert" ever set the float levels right, nor this or that. But, what gets blamed, BUHX plugs, TWO STROKE OILS, everything but incorrectly set variables.

Not many people realize that Mikuni NEVER set the float levels in any of their carbs right for the application they were used on. Stan and I ALWAYS had to pull the carbs and set the floats on brand new, fresh out of the crate bikes, G, S, H and F series, and Z as well. And, we always had to reset the oil pump settings, as they came from Kawasaki way, way too rich, even for the so called "break in" period. We only found a very few engines that had the timing set right as well, mostly the point mag setups on the G and F series were right on, the CDI systems were off a bit, as well as just about EVERY pickup coil gap, straight off the assembly line. THAT is fact.

BUHX/UL17V/UL19V aren't the problem children they have been made out to be. It is the people that don't know how to set the engines/variables up right, that ARE.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:08 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:04 pm
Posts: 128
Location: Fort Worth/Arlington/Dallas
Hey Dave; I recall Much of what you said about the past....recall BUHXs just being a little more price than standard types. My only brand new H1a, got 30,000 virtually trouble-free miles on it, with one "one-over" piston change. (wish I had of known of you then, as we "20 yr olds" rode our Kawis and Suzis to Calif/Nevada(Vegas) 3 summers, including 106 degree heat). I swear I only fouled my BUHXs maybe 3 times total, and that could've easily been my 'driving ignorance', altitudes, overloaded "sissy bars" etc. When I felt I had a "worn" BUHX, it mostly showed obvious 'cracks or tracks' thru the insulator, which told even Me that something wasn't right! ((remember to travel state120 someday, east of Yosemite for a real 'roller coaster' ride for miles; but ride with a friend! And know that my red 70 was there one day)) :clap: Thanks for all your input!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:38 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:03 am
Posts: 4612
Location: Milang, South Australia
Over here, at the time, a standard plug cost $1, and a surface gap plug cost about $4.50, bit more than lunch money back then. So an over-oiling, traffic bound H1, owned by an 18y.o. clown was always going to foul plugs. Which is about the time Kawasaki gave up on them, and we all stated using conventional 9's.

_________________
"One day, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it's worth watching." : anon.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group